Steven (the one I work with, not Steve-o) likes to bait people, and he's pretty good at it. I myself have been known to bait people on occasion (ask Koga :lol). Anyway, the bait that Steven's been dangling recently is that he's been walking around trying to tell everyone that Terminator 3 is the best of the three Terminator movies. Now Steven, like Steve-o, is a tough nut to crack sometimes, so I don't know if that's really what his opinion is or not, but it's pretty obvious that he's been saying it as much as he has to try to bait people into debating it with him. I make it sound more sinister than it is, it's all just in fun, it's not an ass-holish thing to do (and even if it was I'd be a hypocrite if I said so since I do it too). Anyway, all that talk about Terminator 3 made me want to see it again, so I borrowed it from Steven about 2 or 3 weeks ago and watched it again. I gotta be honest, I really did like it. I mean, when I saw it in theaters last summer I liked it then too, but I liked it a lot more the second time. I still like the first two more, but Terminator 3 is damn good. I expected the second time around that a lot of the paradoxes or flaws would show up, as is almost inevitable with any movie that has to do with time travel, but it really seemed pretty solid and pretty well thought out. As such, I'd recomend it to anyone who was a fan of Terminator and Terminator 2.
So why bring this up now? Cause I just re-watched Terminator for the umpteenth time, and something occurred to me about Terminator 3 as a result. See, all along in these movies we're led to believe that John Connor grows up to be the ultimate hero, saving the human race from being wiped out by the machines through his courage, his leadership, and his knowledge of weaponry and tactics. In the first movie we hear that the machines sent the first terminator back to kill Sarah Connor because the people had defeated the machines and it was the machines last ditch effort; and that after Kyle Reese followed the T-101 back through time, the humans destroyed the time machine to make sure no one else would follow. Then in the second movie they do the same thing basically, with each side sending someone to kill John himself (without really explaining how they were still able to research and develop a newer model terminator after the T-101, since supposedly they had already lost the war; although it could be argued they had another hidden base somewhere along with another time machine I suppose). The third one was basically a re-hash of the second one, with the machines sending an even more advanced terminator (the "T-X") back to kill John, and with the humans sending the T-101 (they did give an explanation for why the T-101 came back in the third one, I'll give it that, but it was still basically the same idea as the second movie).
The thing that got me today while watching the first movie was the way that Kyle Reese talked about John Connor, saying he had this strength inside that made him (and everyone else) look up to him and how they would die for John, and how John had showed them all how to rise up against the machines because nobody else was doing it, and he had the knowledge of how to defeat the machines and make weapons to fight with, stuff like that. Now in the second movie, John Connor is nothing like this guy that is described. He's basically a whiner who is a juvenile delinquent who knows how to hack an ATM machine, knows some stuff about guns and computers, but otherwise doesn't seem to have any leadership skills or courage or whatever, and generally is pretty irritating. However, this is acceptable because John Connor is only like 12 years old in the movie, and really what can you expect from a kid that age? In the third movie, however, we still don't see any of the leadership or courage from John, and in fact don't see any (or hardly any) evidence of having knowledge about weapons or computers or guerilla tactics or whatever you would expect of a guy who ends up leading a rebellion against a more heavily armed foe. Instead we see a guy who has basically just become a drifter, who works random construction jobs and lives day to day. The character John Connor in the third movie is not a very powerful person, physically or emotionally. He does little to inspire anyone around him or command much attention or authority.
Now it could be argued that John Connor in the third one acts this way because after the end of the second movie, he figured that Judgment Day would never come, and basically his job was done and there would never be any human rebellion he would need to be the leader of. This is acceptable as an explanation (although he even says in his opening narration that he never really believed that); however there is still a problem with that: whatever explanation that you can think of for why he is this way still contradicts a major point, which is that he still must end up being this guy because the machines keep sending people back to kill him as the leader of the rebellion (they even show Nick Stahl as John Connor in some of the worst "old person" makeup I can remember, standing on some pile of junked machinery waving an American flag as his troops cheer, signifying that he does in fact become the leader). So regardless of what his past has been, clearly his future is that he's this dynamic, powerful leader, and you really don't see it in the third movie. **SPOILER ALERT** Now you could argue "that is what Terminator 4 would be for" but really, since the war of man vs. machine has started by the end of Terminator 3, when and where is he gonna develop into this guy? Is he gonna do it sitting down in that bunker with Katherine Brewster (by the way, how were they planning on getting out of that place after the whole front got caved in by Arnold's battery exploding? :lol)? **END SPOILERS**
In conclusion, I did really like Terminator 3, and I think it had some really interesting ideas and explanations for why things turn out the way they do (specifically that some things are inevitable), and let's face it, some of the action scenes were really very outstanding. I wasn't expecting it to be that great when I first saw it, and if I hadn't seen it the second time and realized how good it was I probably would have never even thought about it this much, but like any good, entertaining movie, I am bound to think about it. My main problem is just with the role of John Connor. This is not to say I had a problem with Nick Stahl, as I think he did a good job in the role as it was written. I just think that the people who wrote Terminator 3 probably were basing who John Connor would be like all grown up based on how he was as a kid in the second movie, as opposed to thinking about who he was supposed to become in the end. They probably saw Edward Furlong, and saw how he turned out and figured that John Connor wouldn't be this inspirational, badass-type of guy (or more likely, they probably wrote it with Furlong in mind, and felt he couldn't pull off being a badass hero). In any event, in thinking about it, if they were going to make John Connor a drifter-type guy (which makes sense that he'd be like that), I really think that his character should have been more like what Roddy Piper's character, Nada, was like in They Live (at least how he was in the beginning of the movie, before he turned into the wise-cracking character that ended up fitting so well in that movie). John Connor would have been a loner, no doubt, but he clearly would not have been someone that you'd want to fuck with. He probably would have been a lot like Kyle Reese in the first movie, come to think of it. Anyway, those were just some thoughts I had today, and since I hadn't heard anyone else weigh in with this viewpoint I thought I'd throw it out there and see what people thought. However, since this entry is long as shit, I doubt anyone will read it anyhow :wink
Comments (26)
"I myself have been known to bait people on occasion (ask Koga)."
So you're a master at baiting?
Meaning... you're a master baiter?
A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.
Posted by Koganuts | February 10, 2004 10:39 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 22:39
Sorry, dood, couldn't resist.
Posted by Koganuts | February 10, 2004 10:43 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 22:43
I know Koga, hard to resist. You didn't read past that point did you? :lol
Posted by Yams | February 10, 2004 10:48 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 22:48
I did. Already spoiled myself on T3 so reading about it again was no biggie.
Posted by Koganuts | February 10, 2004 10:55 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 22:55
BTW, you doing any of that All Star Game stuff this weekend?
Posted by Koganuts | February 10, 2004 11:21 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 23:21
"Doing" any of it? You mean like going to it? :lol I wish. The only thing I'm gonna be doing with it is watching some of it, hopefully. Even season ticket holders didn't get first crack at those tickets :sad
Posted by Yams | February 10, 2004 11:26 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 23:26
wait, before you start talking about basketball.. i think you have a valid point about john connor in the 3rd and, according to cookie, the best of the terminator movies. but he wasn't really given a chance to demonstrate his leadership skills in that movie (nick stahl, not dave), so, i'm not sure what you're basing your assessment of his lack of bad-assness on. i think by the end, when he broadcasts over the military radio, he's in that position whether he likes it or not. in fact, the military radio thing is kind of cool in that he might be the last voice of command anyone hears, which would give him a kind of celebrity or mystique or at least name recognition amongst the survivors that could make him the perfect candidate to take charge when he and kate emerge from their groovy old bunker.
Posted by elvispanda | February 10, 2004 11:42 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 23:42
No, there are other activities that weekend besides the actual All Star Game. I just happened to catch it because I was checking the Sports section of the local paper earlier this week (I think it was Monday's edition), as there's stuff going on at the Convention Center as well as Staples Center:
http://www.nba.com/allstar2004/
Wow, it's a sad day when I know more about basketball than you do, Mr. Yams!
Posted by Koganuts | February 10, 2004 11:54 PM
Posted on February 10, 2004 23:54
Koga, I'm well aware of the other basketball activities this weekend, and even for lame stuff like the "Jam Session" it's $200 or more, and that's for season ticket holders to sit in the nosebleeds. It's all out of my reach, but that is what TV coverage is for. Ok now, no more basketball, if you wanna talk hoops, Koga, make an entry about it on your blog :wink
Back to the entry at hand, I don't really think I buy that, Steven, about John Connor and Kate gaining some celebrity by speaking to two or three people seconds before they are vaporized in the nuclear strike. As for John Connor not having any chances to show what a badass he is, are you kidding me? Right from the get-go when Kate takes his gun away from him and throws him in a kennel before he even knows what happened (and she's a veterinary assistant, mind you), you can see that John Connor is most assuredly not a force to be reckoned with. Really, name one thing that John Connor does in the third movie that helps their plight at all, other than driving away at the beginning when the T-101 tells him to beat it? Hell, Kate even flies the plane at the end. I guess John's big moments are threatening to kill himself (which doesn't work), and turning on the magnet.
How about this for a chance to prove what a badass he is: the guy is supposedly going to take on the machines at their strongest point, pretty much by himself, right? Why not use the T-101 and try to kill the TX by setting a trap for it? That at least would have been something new for the Terminator movies. Every movie it's always "the terminator that is after you could kick my ass, so my plan is to run and hide." I mean, granted, that is what I would do, but this is supposed to be humanity's hero we're talking about. What if he said "fuck running, I'm for killing that thing right now." The Terminator movies are ripe for that type of scenario because after all, usually a machine's weakness is that it is predictable (as the terminators always are, since their counterparts always know what moves they would probably make to try to find and kill their target).
I dunno, I'm not a writer, but I just wish that John Connor hadn't come off so helpless in this movie, considering who he is supposed to be.
Posted by Yams | February 11, 2004 12:57 AM
Posted on February 11, 2004 00:57
Wait, Cookie is leading the resistance against the machines? Where was I?
Posted by Ponnerbell | February 11, 2004 6:00 AM
Posted on February 11, 2004 06:00
"and, according to cookie, the best of the terminator movies." - Yams, I think you just may be right about Steve's love of baiting people.
Posted by Cookie | February 11, 2004 7:19 AM
Posted on February 11, 2004 07:19
Hi, this is just a suggestion. The blue on black text makes entries with lots of links read like a censored FBI report. Please consider this:
A {
color: #fff;
font-weight:bold;
}
A:active, A:hover {
text-decoration: underline;
}
Thank you for your time.
Posted by wamez | February 11, 2004 3:43 PM
Posted on February 11, 2004 15:43
:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh:uhoh
108 HEADS AGREE: LONGEST WINDED BLOG ENTRY EVER!
Posted by fhqwhgads | February 11, 2004 4:33 PM
Posted on February 11, 2004 16:33
oh, and you should know better than to listen to steve. shame. steve is like a stranger with candy. sure they're inviting with their candy and twitchy smiles, but as soon as you open up to them they stick it to you.
Posted by fhqwhgads | February 11, 2004 5:13 PM
Posted on February 11, 2004 17:13
I totally agree James, and have been planning to redesign my entire blog because of that. The problem with Movable Type is that the link style, color and size is controlled by a stylesheet which affects the whole page. I tried changing the colors all to white a couple days ago in fact, and it looks pretty bad, so I'm gonna have to redesign the whole layout. I was thinking about doing it this weekend if I got a chance, but you are completely right about the links being hard to read on that black background. For now it's just gonna stay as is is though.
As for you Lambro... :nono All I can say is boo fucking hoo :lol
Posted by Yams | February 11, 2004 10:23 PM
Posted on February 11, 2004 22:23
yams, also please consider that john connor was heavily drugged through the entire film from taking tranquilizers used to 'chemically neuter dogs' (choice line, does that mean he is now sterile?), so any enthusiasm he could muster.. even standing up.. is quite an accomplishment for him. and i think his radio broadcast probably went out to everyone at every military base everywhere, rather than just the couple of guys who responded. but, that's never made clear so it's every yam for himself.
and hey, i didn't realize it was the best of the three either until a few viewings on dvd. seriously, this film will be interesting long after t2 has bored every last human senseless. maybe that's how the machines take over, they lull us to sleep with an infinite flood of extended editions of t2. the first film will always hold a special place for me because of the time when i saw it, which in my life was kind of a good time (i remember buying gargoyle sunglasses because of arnold), but the second is beyond tiresome, now.
Posted by elvispanda | February 11, 2004 10:43 PM
Posted on February 11, 2004 22:43
Sure it's beyond tiresome for you now, only after many dozens and dozens of viewings. It must have held some allure to make you watch it over and over, right? :lol It suffers from the same thing the third one does: being another pair of beings from the future here to kill or protect someone in the past. I dunno which one is better, that's a matter of personal preference. I give T2 a lot of credit because, for me anyway, I felt it had a lot to live up to, and when I first saw it I felt it delivered. It's clearly not anywhere near as smart a movie as the first one, and if the action is better it's simply because there was more of a budget, but I gotta say, when it came out (and I was 16 when it did), I was pretty pleased, and I've never watched it and been bored by it (of course I never HAD to watch it over and over, which can pretty much kill almost any movie). Terminator 3 exceeded my expectations, but my expectations were pretty low going in, and lots of movies have exceeded low expectations before. They're both good movies though, I don't really care too much which one is better, cause I like them both :grin
Posted by Yams | February 12, 2004 12:07 AM
Posted on February 12, 2004 00:07
you guys sound like sam and diane on cheers just before they kissed for the first time. are you two going to kiss? do you have a smiley face that represents, "steve n' will friends 4-ever"? it should be inside a big heart too. ooh, like for valentine's day.
Posted by fhqwhgads | February 12, 2004 11:05 AM
Posted on February 12, 2004 11:05
You mean something like this: ? :lol
Posted by Yams | February 12, 2004 11:50 AM
Posted on February 12, 2004 11:50
:roll sounds to me like ya'll could have a threesome :rofl
actually I just wanted to make the 20th posting :grin
Posted by iendive | February 12, 2004 4:04 PM
Posted on February 12, 2004 16:04
i only have sex with men.
Posted by fhqwhgads | February 12, 2004 4:39 PM
Posted on February 12, 2004 16:39
:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown.. terrible.
Posted by elvispanda | February 13, 2004 1:24 PM
Posted on February 13, 2004 13:24
Posted by Yams | February 13, 2004 4:50 PM
Posted on February 13, 2004 16:50
Ok, I have to get a piece of this John Connnor BS.
(that's bullshit, not bachelor of science. In case you were wondering.)
It seems to me that the intention of the writer of T3 was to give a character arc for JC (ooh, what clever initials!) such that he starts out as a loser, and ends up as a leader of men.
From what I remember in the film, the 'slow-bits' tended to have stuff about how he wasn't a leader, couldn't take on that mantle, and then at the end he steps up to the microphone and takes charge.
That was the INTENTION of the film, but actually the film is useless at the character stuff (which is why it is the worst of the 3 films) so I think that the viewer misses this. It's a shame too, because the film starts from such an interesting premise - what would it be like to know that you would have been the leader of the world if not for your saving the world when you were a kid?
Hmmm. Deep.
Posted by noshjewman | February 13, 2004 4:58 PM
Posted on February 13, 2004 16:58
Yup. Kinda like: "If only the world were a shitty land devastated by war, I could realize my potential and lead the human race to freedom.... ah to dream the impossible dream!"
Posted by iendive | February 14, 2004 11:51 PM
Posted on February 14, 2004 23:51
josh, how is it 'useless at the character stuff'? i mean, it IS a big, dumb action movie and not wes anderson.
Posted by elvispanda | February 16, 2004 12:13 PM
Posted on February 16, 2004 12:13